City of Lawrence

Board of Electrical Appeals, Regular Meeting

March 5th. 2008 minutes

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:

 

Russell Brickell, Tim Kaufman, Larry Frost, BJ LaBounty and Daniel Beebe

 

MEMBERS ABSENT:

 

 

Jeff Oliver and Jeff Hardie

 

 

 

STAFF PRESENT:

 

Phil Burke

 

PUBLIC PRESENT:

 

 

Chad Luce, Westar Energy

 

 

 

 

Chairman Frost called the meeting to order at 6:01 pm.   

 

Minutes

The minutes of the October 3rd, 2007 meeting had been emailed to all members.  Beebe made a motion to accept the minutes Kaufman seconded the motion, the motion passed unanimously.

 

Correspondence

A letter had been received from Westar Energy regarding a change in the 2008 NEC that they would like to see amended.  Chad Luce, Manger of Customer and Community Relations was present to explain more on the reason for the letter. Mr. Luce went on to explain that in Article 90.2(5) (b) of the 2005 NEC the words “or by other agreements” was contained in the code text.  In the 2008 NEC these words were omitted but not shown as a change in the materials used to evaluate the changes and guide the Board in their review.  Luce continued to explain that in most circumstances Westar works within right of ways and or legal easements established by the property owner agreeing to have electric service provided and thereby allowing Westar access.  Westar’s staff attorney and standards people are concerned that distribution poles and associated equipment located on private property could come under the jurisdiction of the NEC as opposed to being under the NESC code that is utilized by Westar.

Mr. Luce provided some optional language to replace “or by other agreements” if something more descriptive was preferred. Luce asked for consideration on behalf of Westar to either place “or by other agreements” back into the 2008 City of Lawrence Code amendments or utilize the language provided by Westar into an amendment to the code.

 

Staff asked how they viewed this prior to the 2002 NEC that based on his research that is when it first appeared in the code. 

 

Mr. Luce was unable to provide an answer at this time. Luce thought the focus was more on the change from the 2005 to the 2008 than what had been in the code in previous editions. 

 

Frost asked if the language located in 90.2 (B) (5) (a) would allow Westar the exclusive rights to operate in those areas.

 

Luce responded that the legal department of Westar did not think that would allow for distribution lines and poles to be exempt from the NEC requirements.

 

Brickell asked if a legal agreement was required on private property to install service lines.

 

Luce responded that when customers sign up for electric service they are giving Westar the necessary access to install and maintain the utility provided lines and equipment. The agreement is part of the KCC regulations.  The alternate language provided by Westar is more specific and refers to those particular agreements used for distribution lines and associated equipment not part of the customer supplied service.

 

Frost asked if some resolve was desired at tonight’s meeting.

 

Mr. Luce said he was present to explain Westar’s position and ask for consideration during the review process.  He also asked staff to make him aware of the progression to allow him time to review the change if accepted for content and clarity.  He asked the Board if they had any questions on this matter or about Westar in general. (Luce left)

 

Beebe wondered what inspired it to be placed in the code previously and what prompted the removal.  He didn’t think that question was answered.

 

Brickell voiced his preference of the strictly legal version provided by Mr. Luce as it specifically limited their operations to exactly what they should be doing. 

 

Unfinished Business

Frost asked if we would be looking for two new members, one journeyman and one contractor.

 

Staff responded that Jeff Hardie and Jeff Oliver positions would become vacant as of March 31st, 2008.  These open positions would be identified on the City of Lawrence web site at that time.  Staff has had only one inquiry regarding the vacancies. 

 

Frost advised members to be on the look for potential candidates.

 

Staff was unaware if anyone was on waiting list, but would check with City Hall.  Occasionally the Mayor may select from other than the suggested list. 

 

Beebe responded that they will need to be regular attendees to be effective.  We may be well advised to inform them of the requirements, especially this year.

 

 

 

 

New Business

Frost made mention of the preparation to begin the review of the 2008 NEC for adoption and asked staff to expand on that item.

 

Staff responded the first item was to distribute books to members.  Staff has also prepared a list of the 2005 amendments in comparison to the 2008 NEC.  It appears that only one amendment will be encompassed by the 2008 NEC.  The code basically adopted in their language what our amendment had said.

 

Frost thought the group could look over the change analysis prior to the next meeting.

 

Brickell added that could be a good start and then we would look through the analysis to see what changes have been made and if any additional amendments would be required.

 

LaBounty asked about some language used in the document and staff clarified.

 

Brickell mentioned some problems the Fire Department Inspectors have with receptacle outlets placed inside cabinets in bathrooms found in some sororities.  The hair dryer cord is continually closed in the door causing excessive cord damage.  They have been hard pressed to find a solution to the problem.

 

Beebe highlighted some items he had seen within the change book.  He sees some issues with GFCI protecting all receptacles in garages and unfinished basements.  Beebe thought some appliances would not operate on GFCI protection if they were older models. This may lead to nuisance tripping and very possibly go undetected until the contents of the freezer or refrigerator spoils.  GFCI protection was also extended to sump pumps which may cause flooding if a nuisance trip went undetected. 

 

Staff asked if the nuisance tripping from power outages was still a problem.

 

Beebe thought the smart lock type device currently used didn’t have those problems. 

 

LaBounty asked if Beebe had looked at the arc-fault requirement changes.

 

Beebe responded that he questioned what they meant by similar room, but hadn’t looked closely at the changes.  Beebe in turn posed a question to Brickell regarding reports on the reduction of residential fires by using AFCI protection.

 

LaBounty stated the manufacturers have flooded them with documents highlighting their effectiveness. 

 

Brickell stated most electrical fires are caused by cord abuse.  Brickell mentioned that he may change the tracking methods of electrical fires to indicate what type of circuit caused the ignition and that would help track the effectiveness of the AFCI’s.

 

 

Beebe voiced concerns that some persons might stretch the limits of the branch circuit that must be protected by the AFCI in order to have a lower bid.  In many cases it will come down to who provides the lowest bid that will pass inspection and meet the code minimum.  He thinks houses can be wired to meet the minimum but they still miss the mark on practical operation.  Once everyone is paid it’s too late to do anything about it.

 

LaBounty commented that people are still being stuck with the minimum standard in housing.  If minimum is all that is required that’s what most of them do.

 

Frost mentioned that it may be necessary to limit the number of openings on a circuit, or at least on the circuits with AFCI protection. 

 

Staff stated the office doesn’t require load calculations on residential projects.  These documents are required on commercial.  He cautioned that a load calculation may not provide the information necessary to require an increase in the number of branch circuits, but it would put an exact number on the service size required. Staff added that it may be time to think about limiting the number of openings that can be placed on a circuit; we may have reached that point. 

 

Brickell commented the number of things connected to a receptacle in today’s world has increased dramatically.  Brickell echoed the concerns of having too many openings on any one branch circuit.

 

LaBounty echoed Brickell’s comment on the number of items connected to a receptacle typically using a plug in strip of some kind.

 

Frost stated that the City of Columbia Missouri has limited openings on branch circuits for as long as he can remember. 

 

Beebe suggested what ever method is chosen it must be easy to enforce and be recognized quickly on the inspection if the correct number of circuits is there.

 

Frost shared a story where an AFCI detected a nail in a conductor on a new home where it would have gone undetected until something possibly could have caught on fire. 

 

Staff commented that a lot of the driving force behind AFCI’s is workmanship.  Many jurisdictions allow a licensed company to employ whom ever they want supervised or not to perform wiring.  Staff doesn’t think in Lawrence where we have a required ratio of licensed workers on the job to unlicensed workers that we see the issues that many inspectors even in Kansas City see. 

 

Beebe doesn’t like the 20 feet square feet limitation on receptacles placed on balconies. He feels if they have access to the area that a receptacle should be placed there to limit the use of cords, especially for decorative lighting. Members echoed his sentiment.

 

Frost closed the meeting with the directive of reviewing the change book and highlighting things they wish to discuss as well as looking at the amendment document.

 

 

 

Adjournment

LaBounty made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Kaufman; motion passed unanimously and the meeting was adjourned at 7:00 pm.

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Phil Burke

Secretary