July 18, 2007 minutes
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MEMBERS PRESENT: |
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Chairman Frank Lewis, Co-Chairman Doug Dillon, Kenny Breithaupt, and Jim Carpenter |
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MEMBERS ABSENT: |
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Chuck Hoag |
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GUEST PRESENT: |
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Kevin Chaney, Jim Sparks, Ken Johnson, Josef Rantner, Duane Peasley, Bill Schweitzer, Dennis Whitman |
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STAFF PRESENT: |
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Tim Pinnick, Plans Examiner Manager |
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Ex-Offico: |
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Mark Mills, Plumbing Inspector |
Call meeting to order.
Lewis called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m.
Introductions.
The Board Members and guests introduced themselves.
Approve the May 2, 2007 minutes.
Breithaupt made a motion to approve the minutes. Carpenter second the motion, the motion passed 4-0.
Review the 2006 International Codes.
Lewis opened the discussion to the guests.
Chaney informed the Board that he was concerned that the Board had approved the International Plumbing Code without any amendments. Chaney stated that he had issue with the vent chapter as well as the water pipe sizing in the International Codes. Chaney went on saying that the under sizing of the vents and water lines and the utilization of air admittance valves were going to be a problem and hoped he could get the Board to add amendments addressing these issues.
Breithaupt stated that the Board spent the better part of the last three years reviewing the International Codes. Breithaupt continued saying that it was obvious that the International Codes were inferior. Breithaupt stated that the Board recommended the 2003 Uniform Plumbing and presented a draft ordinance to that effect. Breithaupt went on to say that it was obvious that the Commission did not care due to the directive to adopt the International Codes.
Breithaupt stated that amendments make it difficult especially for someone from out of town. Breithaupt continued saying the venting is not the best, but the venting will work. Breithaupt stated that the Boards thought was to adopt the code as is and as issues or concerns presented themselves address it at that time.
Rantner asked who told the Board they had to review the International codes.
Staff informed Rantner that the City Commission voted to 5-0 to go with the International Codes and that the appropriate boards have any amendments back to the Commission within six months.
Rantner questioned the Board’s decision to recommend adoption of the IPC without any amendments. Rantner continued saying the Board had an obligation to recommend amendments to code sections they felt substandard.
Chaney stated that he was the chairman of the mechanical board and they dealt with the same issue, not wanting the International Code, but when directed by the Commission the mechanical board made amendments to make it the best code they could. Chaney continued that as a board member you need to do what is best for the City and its citizens.
Schweitzer stated that there was an easy way to take care of the issue. Schweitzer explained that the Board could make one amendment adopting IAPMO’s (International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials) one and two family dwelling code that matches the International Residential Code, except there are no air admittance valves and the water pipe sizing would be appropriate. Schweitzer stated that the State of Louisiana required all temporary housing to have vents to the outside rather than utilizing the air admittance valves.
Schweitzer continued saying if the Board was not familiar with air born bacteria that was what happened in China when they had the SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) epidemic. Schweitzer went on to say that IAPMO was involved with that, trying to find out where it came from. Schweitzer explained that a floor drain seal was dry in a furnace room and someone ate an infected cat, got sick, vomited in a stool, flushed it, it became an air born bacteria, the furnace came on and pulled the air out of the sewer and spread the virus through out the building.
Schweitzer stated that the City cannot afford to have methane gas and air born bacteria inside our houses.
Chaney stated that if the Board recommends amendments to the International Codes to make it the best code available the Commission will accept it.
Schweitzer apologized to the Board for missing the previous meeting. Schweitzer stated that there was a difference between the water pipe sizing in the International Plumbing Code and the Uniform Code but the water pipe sizing in the International Residential Code is close to the Uniform Code. Schweitzer explained that the IPC left too much up to interpretation and IAPMO does not like to leave things up to interpretation because that is too much leeway for anyone.
Breithaupt asked Schweitzer how many amendments it would take to make the International Codes look like the Uniform Code.
Schweitzer suggested six or seven amendments would clear up the differences.
Sparks stated that if the International Code has lowered the standard as Breithaupt has said and it does not work who is going to be responsible, will it be a civil matter. Sparks continued saying that not everyone has the means to make the necessary repairs.
Rantner stated the Board needed to express their opinion and if that opinion is that the International Codes are fine the way they are written then so be it. Rantner went on to say that he had talked to some of the Board members personally and he had gotten different opinions.
Pinnick stated that code changes occur all the time and rather than innuendos and assumptions in the code making process that there be a recommendation that deals with a code section along with substantiation of the proposal and that was what was lacking in this conversation. Pinnick continued saying that he was interested in specific examples.
Schweitzer stated that without amendments polybutylene piping would be an approved product and guaranteed that polybutylene was the sorriest pipe he has ever seen. Schweitzer said that it was a shame that materials get installed that were thought of as a great product when it came out, only for it fail and need to be replaced.
Schweitzer stated that IAPMO has had plumbing code for eighty years while the International Code Council has only had a plumbing code for nine years and asked who had the expertise. Schweitzer went on saying that the IAPMO had the only ANSI accredited plumbing and mechanical codes in the nation.
Schweitzer stated that he had worked with plumbing in a lot of different states and a lot of different areas and plumbing is plumbing but it needs to be done right. Schweitzer continued saying that air admittance valves may ultimately get into the Uniform code but would be in the appendix and would have to be independently adopted for alternate type plumbing systems.
Schweitzer stated that he was still working on getting the Commission turned around on this issue and would need the support of the contractors to get it done. Schweitzer stated that he had plumbed by both codes and he would plumb by the Uniform Code to be safe.
Carpenter stated that he did not like the venting in the International Codes but his biggest problem was he did not know what to do with it.
Lewis mentioned that one of the big issues as to why the City was going with International Codes were all the references between the International Codes.
Schweitzer stated that the City wanted to go with one family of codes but the problem with that is that you have to take all the cousins. Schweitzer continued that you can pick your friends but you can not pick your family. Schweitzer stated that having multiple books would sell a lot of books and IAPMO’s plumbing code is just one book.
Staff informed Schweitzer that the Board had a directive from the Commission and the Board needed to get back to accomplishing that directive.
Dillon stated that the Board was supposed to make amendments to make a few people happy. Dillon continued saying that there was nothing wrong with adopting the code as is and making amendments as issues came up.
Lewis stated that it was not a big surprise that he had issues with the venting, particularly the air admittance valves.
Breithaupt stated that air admittance valves have their place, in remodels, but not in a new home.
Carpenter asked staff if the current amendments would apply to the new code.
Staff replied that by recommending the International Codes as written the current amendments would be repealed.
Carpenter made a motion to carry the current amendments forward into the International Codes if appropriate, Breithaupt second the motion, the motion passed 4-0.
Lewis made a motion to limit the use of air admittance valves to special situations with a prior approval from the Department Having Jurisdiction required, Breithaupt second the motion, the motion passed 4-0.
Breithaupt made a motion that all vents penetrating the roof are a minimum two inch diameter and the cross section area of all the vents equal the minimum sewer size, Lewis second the motion, the motion passed 4-0.
Breithaupt made a motion to accept the International Fuel Gas Code ordinance, Carpenter second the motion, the motion passed 4-0.
Adjourn
With no other business a motion was made by Carpenter to adjourn the meeting, Dillon second the motion, the motion passed 4-0.
Lewis adjourned the meeting at 8:40 p.m.